(Ban the CAMS note.  I have made a few comments on this article.  But it is a PRIME EXAMPLE of how the scamera side will change the defintion of a "violation" to chrun tickets.  Keep this quote in mind from a http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/29/2990.asp article on the "violation' lines:  A number of jurisdictions across the country paint four-inch wide white lines on the pavement at what is known as the "prolongation" of the cross street's curb line in order to facilitate the use of automated ticketing machines. These are not the "stop bar" or crosswalk lines that most motorists expect, but a third set of lines that appear at the very edge of the intersection."

http://www.kold.com/story/14519969/major-tucson-intersections-confusing-for-some

Major Tucson intersections confusing and costly for some
Posted: Apr 26, 2011 7:48 PM EDT
Updated: Apr 29, 2011 7:24 PM EDT
By Barbara Grijalva, reporter - bio | email

TUCSON, AZ (KOLD) - As if red light cameras aren't enough, some Tucson drivers say confusing markings at major intersections are pushing them over the line, and into costly tickets.

Big intersections like Speedway Boulevard and Kolb Road or 22nd Street and Wilmot Road are confusing to some people.

It's causing a lot of them to get caught by the red-light cameras, especially when turning left.

Here's the problem: People don't understand where the actual intersection is.

Tucson Police Sergeant Tim Beam, who heads the Photo Enforcement Unit, says just imagine extending the curb lines at the intersection so they form a box. Anything inside that box is, by legal definition, an intersection. 

That's important because Tucson has many intersections where the crosswalk is set back from the intersection, some about 30 feet back.

That's how it is at Speedway and Kolb.

Tucsonan Sharon Marchewka says, "I don't understand the ticket, but I have to pay it."

Cindy Sallee would rather avoid turning left altogether.

"It makes me nervous because of the cameras. If I go through this intersection, I make sure I go straight and I do a U-turn and come back," she says.

The Tucson Department of Transportation says the crosswalk at Speedway and Kolb, and other large Tucson intersections are set back from the actual intersections so pedestrians have a shorter walk across the street, and traffic doesn't have to wait so long for them to cross.

The department says you'll see this at major intersections, with dual left lanes, dedicated right turn lanes and bus pullouts.

Now here's where drivers get confused

The driver is coming up to the intersection, and is past the crosswalk, but not to the line that marks the intersection yet.  That's the "violation" line.

The light turns red. What should the driver do?

Let's ask the expert.  (Ban the CAMS note:  "Expert", ya right, HE WORKS FOR THE SCAM!  His JOB IS DEPENDENT UPON KEEPING THE TAKE UP!)

Sgt. Beam says, "If you're in between the violation line and the crosswalk and that light turns red, simply stay put and you are fine."

(Ban the Cams note:  First off the FHwA Assocation declared in 2009 the "violatons" lines are ILLEGAL!:  http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/29/2990.asp.)

Again.

"If you're between the violation line and the crosswalk, and that light turns red, you need to stay put," Beam repeats. 

Beam says it's all about perception.

It might feel like no man's land, but it's not.

"You're fine. You're not in the way of traffic for northbound or southbound, or eastbound or westbound, in this case. You're out of the way. You're not in an intersection," Beam says.

People are used to other intersections, smaller ones, where the crosswalks are not set back.

At those intersections you truly are in the intersection if you drive past the crosswalk.

Back to Speedway and Kolb where another driver has just pulled into that place between the crosswalk and the violation line.

Beam points him out.

"He's legal. Traffic's going by him. There's no way they're going to hit him," he says.

It would help if Tucson drivers got used to the big intersections with the set-back crosswalks.

They are the future for our city.

In fact, one is going in at Kolb and Golf Links right now.

There's one more thing Beam wants to clarify about intersections.

"If you've entered legally into the intersection and that light turns red, you have the right to clear the intersection. And, being there legally, everybody would yield to you until you were able to clear the intersection," he says.

So, what is "being there legally?"

"If they are past the curb lines when the light is yellow or green, then they are legally in the intersection," Sgt. Beam says.

(Ban the CAMS note:  Ever notice their "definition" didn't say stop line,   Don't you just love Tuscon's (ATS) "definitions"!!!!!!!!!  IN fact in that 2009 Tuscon article  here is one quote to consider:  http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/29/2990.asp "At the Oracle location, for example, the violation line appears forty-three feet after the stop bar."

This means a driver who clears the crosswalk on yellow would still get a ticket if he did not clear the violation line before the light turned red. At 40 MPH, the practice has the same effect on violations as shortening the yellow light by 1.3 seconds.)

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